tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post1024341828532749893..comments2024-01-06T02:22:33.000-05:00Comments on Camden Depot: Adam Jones is Playing Deeper, but is it Helping?Jon Shepherdhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03521809778977098687noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-10713489812702575702017-05-10T20:37:31.493-04:002017-05-10T20:37:31.493-04:00Matt, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying m...Matt, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying management are evil and dictatorial, but you'll find that your relationship with management is fabulous and very cooperative as long you're going in the direction they want you to go in. There are limits to every cooperative venture with management - different limits in different organizations. I think the changes in Jones's playing depth have been positive at least to the untrained eye. There really do seem to be fewer balls getting over his head. Not sure how it translates to overall performance but even if performance is the same and he's giving up singles instead of doubles, that's a good thing. I'm not an expert at reading baseball statistics numbers but I think the whole O's outfield defensive performance is improved and that has got to be part of the improvement in the pitchers' numbers. On a somewhat related note, I think Smith and Mancini are making Kim irrelevant even though he could be an on base machine. My guess is that the O's ultimately view Bourn as a better option than Kim and, when Bourn's ready, Kim may go on the block. I wonder what kind of return they could get for Kim.Rogernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-10438531818656606152017-05-10T13:00:41.662-04:002017-05-10T13:00:41.662-04:00Just to expand on what Jon said, there are roughly...Just to expand on what Jon said, there are roughly 10 RAR (runs above replacement) in each WAR (wins above replacement). Also, Fangraphs seems to think that Davis has done a better job base running than Jones this year. If you're looking at batting, the difference is even smaller.<br /><br />In addition, not only do baseball organizations use analysts, but organizations in the real world do this. Data analysts don't necessarily have familiarity in the field where they're analyzing data. For example, data analysts for manufacturing companies may have never worked on the assembly line themselves. Outside consultants by definition have little connection to the company that hires them. <br /><br />Roger states that management and labor don't work in a "kumbaya" relationship. That's certainly not my personal experience in the workforce. But I can promise you that if I had access to the baseball players and could discuss my ideas with them for this blog, that I'd definitely take what they had to say into account.Matt Pnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-58023003018159777302017-05-10T12:10:11.877-04:002017-05-10T12:10:11.877-04:00One final note...Pirates have incorporated this ki...One final note...Pirates have incorporated this kind of analysis in a very kumbaya way with their players. It is well understood by most people that different vantage points can identify different things. Jones' input is very valuable, but he also lacks the the information analysts have. They need to work together to fill in each other's weaknesses. This concept is not new or original and many organizations do this. The Orioles do not.Jon Shepherdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03521809778977098687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-52757384672565155212017-05-10T12:07:15.263-04:002017-05-10T12:07:15.263-04:00Regarding defense, Inside Zone relies on scouting ...Regarding defense, Inside Zone relies on scouting every ball in play to a fielder and it suggests that Jones has most trouble than most with moderate to far batted balls. Statcast shows Jones is plus going backwards to his left, but pretty unspectacular in other directions.Jon Shepherdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03521809778977098687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-26302502659082577082017-05-10T12:02:29.361-04:002017-05-10T12:02:29.361-04:00You are citing offensive and defensive values from...You are citing offensive and defensive values from Fangraphs, right? That is not WAR. That is RAR. That should make a lot more sense to you now.Jon Shepherdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03521809778977098687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-77737479640923780932017-05-10T11:28:22.399-04:002017-05-10T11:28:22.399-04:00I'm not sure how much advanced metrics I trust...I'm not sure how much advanced metrics I trust at all. Adam Jones currently has a negative Offensive WAR of -.06. Chris Davis has an offensive War of 2.0. Jones currently has 5HR, 17R, 14RBI and has a .263/.315/.406 line. Davis has 4HR, 14R, 8RBI and a .239/.351/.394 line.<br /><br />Chris Davis's offensive production is really worth that high of a differential in terms of WAR? wow. Mr. Diggznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-85310746876731758452017-05-10T11:03:24.529-04:002017-05-10T11:03:24.529-04:00I just don't trust defensive metrics all the w...I just don't trust defensive metrics all the way. Jones not only has incredible instincts in reading fly balls and line drives, he still has plus speed to track them down. His UZR rating suggests he doesn't, but we have already seen Jones make some terrific catches that could have easily resulted in base hits. A UZR well into the negatives suggest a player has very limited range. It simply doesn't show when you watch Jones on a game by game basis. Mr. Diggznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-79711767632482035682017-05-10T10:27:33.140-04:002017-05-10T10:27:33.140-04:00"At the same time, trusting Jones to know exa..."At the same time, trusting Jones to know exactly what's best not only for himself but for his partners in the outfield would be naive. The best situation would have been for the Orioles to have Jones and the analysts to sit and work together, to communicate, and to formulate a plan in a partnership between the subject matter expert and the consultant."<br /><br />The expert is Adam Jones. <br /><br />Analysts and consultants who have never stepped onto a major league field or played in CF don't hold a candle to the insights, abilities, and comprehension of a perennial all star and team leader. The best thing the Orioles can do for Adam Jones is let him be Adam Jones. Let him lead the outfield, let him choose his positioning, and let him be the all star we've come to respect and cherish.GRob78noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-7413296151435238082017-05-10T07:24:58.768-04:002017-05-10T07:24:58.768-04:00Patrick, you must be a very young guy. Never in a...Patrick, you must be a very young guy. Never in any place of employment have I had the experience that management wants to work together in a "kumbaya" relationship with labor. We would all love that and we all think it would make the workplace better and make the job more efficient and effective (especially for labor that is highly trained like Jones). But it ain't gonna happen for the most part except for short stretches where management doesn't think the results are too important.Rogernoreply@blogger.com