tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post7104461559679222132..comments2024-01-06T02:22:33.000-05:00Comments on Camden Depot: Nick Markakis' Secret Platoon IssueJon Shepherdhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03521809778977098687noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-8051436935896290552014-06-05T07:20:25.152-04:002014-06-05T07:20:25.152-04:00If I was to assess a player, I am not sure I would...If I was to assess a player, I am not sure I would use those numbers in that way. I mean, let us just think about all star quality and ignore all of the advanced metrics that would better utilize his numbers as a whole. Batting average of .308 would have been 6th best among outfielders last year. That is very good. 12 home runs would be 32nd best and several folks above him did not play full seasons, so that is a rather unexceptional home run rate. Doubles would put him as 13th overall, so his secondary power is not greatly making up for his lack of home run power. Finally, strikeouts...I am not sure how you are using that as a stand alone statistic in terms of value. Norichiki Aoki struck out last year at a rate half of that.<br /><br />Anyway, no one is saying Markakis is a bad player, but that he does some things not so well and perhaps there are better ways to put him in a place to succeed.Jon Shepherdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03521809778977098687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-63852467843286425952014-06-04T23:31:38.397-04:002014-06-04T23:31:38.397-04:00THIS SEASON vs LEFTIES:
Markakis: .324, 15% Stri...THIS SEASON vs LEFTIES:<br /><br />Markakis: .324, 15% Strikeouts <br />Pearce: .211, 22% Strikeouts<br />Young: .226, 17% Strikeouts<br /><br />Comparing the difference in extra base hits per AB isn't staggeringly different either. Markakis is an incredibly consistent hitter who has great bat control and constantly comes up with hits when we need them. He had a below average (although not horrible by any stretch) season last year, likely due to a lingering injury. He's on pace for a .308 average, 12 HR's, 33 2B's, and 84 SO's. That may not be a premier player's numbers, but they're certainly all-star caliber. I've never understood why so many people in this city think Markakis is not as good of a player as he actually is. Maybe he's not worth 17.5 MM, but to suggest platooning him this season is stupid...I'm sorry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-73073107249769006942014-06-03T13:57:17.594-04:002014-06-03T13:57:17.594-04:00Appreciate everyone's comments and am sorry th...Appreciate everyone's comments and am sorry that I missed the discussion over the weekend.<br /><br />Just want to make one final point on Markakis. He's put together a nice career with the Orioles. If you want to discuss his career fWAR (or bWAR), you have to consider that his 2007 and 2008 seasons contributed nearly half his career WAR. He's not the same player he was then, and he shouldn't be expected to be that player anymore. The AL East looks to be tight all year, and any tactic that provides an advantage could make the difference between a trip to the playoffs and a trip to the golf course. I thought a RH platoon partner for Markakis is something that could make a difference.<br /><br />I should have emphasized it slightly more in the article, but using Pearce or Young (preferably Pearce) as that RH platoon partner improves the offense without making any roster moves.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05119567934749982333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-28753290998844047562014-06-02T21:28:21.704-04:002014-06-02T21:28:21.704-04:001.8x is an approximate. wOBA actually looks at sin...1.8x is an approximate. wOBA actually looks at single events.<br /><br />I would not call it shifting focus away from power, but putting everything on the same scale.Jon Shepherdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03521809778977098687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-68978213916187317982014-06-02T15:42:47.802-04:002014-06-02T15:42:47.802-04:00wOBA, that weighs obp 1.8 times more than sluggin...wOBA, that weighs obp 1.8 times more than slugging does it not? Hence shifting focus away from power and increasing the value of ones ability to hit singles or walk. That was indeed my point.<br /><br />I misspoke by seeming to suggest (I just reread my comment) that WAR uses OPS. I meant that walks and hits(namely singles) are still a part of WAR. And WAR should ultimately indicate a person statisical value at least.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05633035620915468344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-24541734150287635072014-06-02T15:12:05.156-04:002014-06-02T15:12:05.156-04:00It's possible to believe that Markakis has had...It's possible to believe that Markakis has had a good career, been very valuable to the Orioles organization, still has value to the club but would serve the team best at this point playing only against righties. <br /><br />As long as we have Pearce and Young on the roster then we may as well use them. Matt Perezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16191574755038653061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-23634474869529409502014-06-02T14:45:45.314-04:002014-06-02T14:45:45.314-04:00OPS is an old school stat. WAR is influenced by th...OPS is an old school stat. WAR is influenced by things like runs created or wOBAJon Shepherdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03521809778977098687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-33062303224795215002014-06-02T12:05:57.425-04:002014-06-02T12:05:57.425-04:00Jon, you're correct. Your point was the player... Jon, you're correct. Your point was the players power. So it is not necessarily a valid counter-argument when it was brought up. I was simply making the point that when acheived I differ from you and feel it should celebrated. We're a long way off though. <br /> <br /> On the other topic brought up by posters here, hits and walks do play into a persons value though. That's why OPS is still and oft-quoted stat and if I'm not mistaken, at least indirectly influences WAR and o WAR. So there is value for Markakis there. So the question is, what does the market say that's worth. Namely, a player's AAV vs. That of comparable players. I believe I tried to make that point in my other post, that while most logical people agree that 17.5 mil is too much for a year of Markakis (myself included), calling him a bust is not productive either. <br /><br /> Leadership, age and production wise I'd decline this players option and shoot for a 4 year 46 mil deal (essentially 12 mil a year). That'd get you deep into discussion with his agent as a starting point.<br /><br /> Of course it all depends on the rest of this year too.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05633035620915468344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-81723290805466323552014-06-02T08:46:50.051-04:002014-06-02T08:46:50.051-04:00Matt - I don't mean to belittle 3,000 hits as ...Matt - I don't mean to belittle 3,000 hits as an accomplishment. I mean to belittle it as having any importance here. We can cite a list thousands of players long who were on pace for some milestones at age 30 who never wound up anywhere near it. With that in mind, it is not a very useful thing to bring up. What it does is create a false context that brings a halo to the player.Jon Shepherdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03521809778977098687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-68426786919634079142014-06-02T08:44:34.334-04:002014-06-02T08:44:34.334-04:00Anon - I played ball rather competitively until my...Anon - I played ball rather competitively until my shoulder went out on me when I was 17. I also wound up in a rather competitive softball league in my 20s and won a couple championships pitching and playing left center. All of that certainly helps with situational awareness, but I do not think it matters all that much because there are several ways toward understanding baseball beyond being relatively good at playing it. Similarly, just because someone is an excellent farmer does not mean that they have much skill at land management. Different skill sets are being used.Jon Shepherdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03521809778977098687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-56573802633258327202014-06-01T19:39:58.560-04:002014-06-01T19:39:58.560-04:00Anonymous said "you guys sound like you never...Anonymous said "you guys sound like you never played a day in life, go outside and play some or at least softball cause your probably can not play the real thing."<br /><br />I could barely write a more typical sentence if I were impersonating a logic-hating stats-hating change-hater. I'm surprised it didn't include a reference to these posts being written by people located in their individual mother's basement.<br /><br />Everything Jon and Nate conveyed is logical, thoughtful, and frankly pretty obvious given how well it was presented. I have a very low opinion of most of society and message board comments like the ones from Anonymous, whoever he/she/they may be, serve to further my cynicism and misanthropy. I find the less a person actually knows the more they think they know and are very confident expressing it while deriding others who's opinion differs.Bradhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15611479577823491109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-17272263289888537672014-06-01T18:37:53.132-04:002014-06-01T18:37:53.132-04:00you guys sound like you never played a day in life...you guys sound like you never played a day in life, go outside and play some or at least softball cause your probably can not play the real thing. Put away your advanced stats and openly embraced hatred for Markakis yes he is a disappoint and not worth 15 million a year. the guy is a complete professional hitter and fielder; stick your "fielding" stats that hold no water in any argument with real talent observers and get a life go hit a softball and run around Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-37155025414195292002014-06-01T17:29:36.247-04:002014-06-01T17:29:36.247-04:00Well said.Well said.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05633035620915468344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-11749549683747120782014-06-01T16:59:01.971-04:002014-06-01T16:59:01.971-04:00Doesn't the fact that few do it still make it ...Doesn't the fact that few do it still make it incredible?, as much as you seem to want to belittle it? His career oWAR is 22.5 through full seasons and at 2.85 per year. Look at ccomparables (in terms of offense)like Hunter Pence and see the deal he signed. Everyone knows Markakis is not worth $15 mil let alone $17.5, but people should quit attacking him because the front offense thought he would developer into a power hitter.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05633035620915468344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-2638818011925628592014-06-01T16:35:25.788-04:002014-06-01T16:35:25.788-04:00Your points all make sense. I, however, think ther...Your points all make sense. I, however, think there is a benefit to having a guy who can actually work the count and get on base. In terms of plate discipline, the only thing the birds have had since 2006 other than Markakis is Roberts. I don't have time to quote all stats but Kakes leads the birds in K/BB rate almost every year. A fair comparison for Markakis would be right fielders average value($)per year for the OBP and OPS he provides. His contact was $11 mil. A year. That probably puts him smack down in the middle of what market value is for his plate production in the free agent market. Blame the contact value (for which $17.5 mil is too high for his production) on the GM and contact structure.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05633035620915468344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-89801460578406795952014-06-01T14:10:01.041-04:002014-06-01T14:10:01.041-04:00If Markakis plays 9 more years and stays at his cu...If Markakis plays 9 more years and stays at his current production, it would be a miracle.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17734221506209567204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-61692268107389757342014-05-30T12:38:23.474-04:002014-05-30T12:38:23.474-04:00I think expecting Markakis to play nine more years...I think expecting Markakis to play nine more years, let alone nine more years of similar production, is more than a long shot. And hoping that Markakis would have been better doesn't mean he hasn't been appreciated.Matt Kremnitzerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15693430925266947705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-21831277008659969362014-05-30T11:43:35.629-04:002014-05-30T11:43:35.629-04:00Anon - doubles would be nice, too. Baseball is ab...Anon - doubles would be nice, too. Baseball is about getting on base and being able to produce runs. Singles hitting has its worth, but it is not exactly the best thing to depend on. Also, I think a 3,000 hit fetish does not really say much about his value...especially if he is require to not age in order to accomplish a somewhat arbitrary feat.Jon Shepherdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03521809778977098687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-2022867445406157242014-05-30T11:17:29.941-04:002014-05-30T11:17:29.941-04:00If Nick Markakis plays 9 more years at the same pa...If Nick Markakis plays 9 more years at the same pace as his first nine years he'll have 3,000 hits. Not exactly an average player, and the obsession with home runs needs to end.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-8937881483706496452014-05-29T14:32:26.706-04:002014-05-29T14:32:26.706-04:00I have thought for a while that Markakis should ge...I have thought for a while that Markakis should get more days off, but as long as he's relatively healthy, he plays every day, period. A trade for someone who can hit left-handed pitching would make some sense (depending on cost), though the O's could play Pearce more often, putting him in left or right field (depending on where Cruz is). If they were to acquire someone, though, Lough or Young would have to go. Matt Kremnitzerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15693430925266947705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-72513674268823499672014-05-29T14:15:00.923-04:002014-05-29T14:15:00.923-04:00Pearce and Young should not platoon in LF. Both a...Pearce and Young should not platoon in LF. Both are having fluky good seasons against RHP, but multiple years of data say they are easily overmatched unless facing LHP. They're both terribke fielders out there as well. However, either one of them would be an ok choice for the weak side of a RF platoon with Markakis. <br /><br />I disagree with cutting Lough. He has value as a 4th or 5th OF, but was miscast as starter at the beginning of the seasonAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05119567934749982333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-62568835515308612252014-05-29T09:37:57.647-04:002014-05-29T09:37:57.647-04:00Power may not be a priority, but it still impacts ...Power may not be a priority, but it still impacts a game and it certainly impacts what one is willing to spend next year.Jon Shepherdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03521809778977098687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2893512317902577458.post-53536907597260309712014-05-29T09:22:35.333-04:002014-05-29T09:22:35.333-04:00Decent points made, however he is now a leadoff hi...Decent points made, however he is now a leadoff hitter and power isn't his priority. There is a bigger issue and that is the LF position. David Lough should be cut, honestly. Who cares he is a LF bat. If I'm working with just what we currently have, I'd rather platoon Young and Pearce in LF.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com